Most people seem to not like the 8th episode of Ouran and for good reason. I’m probably going to be beating a dead horse here, but there was a particular scene in the episode that really disturbed me; and being someone who likes -perhaps even needs- to address certain ideas that pop up in popular culture, well I just had to write this post.
The fight between Haruhi and some dudes, which is the set up for everything else that happens this episode.
Now I wasn’t particularly thrilled when the boys started getting upset with Haruhi for what she did. I personally thought what Haruhi did was the right sort of thing to do when one sees people you know and like in trouble, so I was entirely with Haruhi on this issue. That said, I did give the boys credit where it is due. I mean, Haruhi can’t seem to fight, so it is understandable that they too would be worried about her in turn. Where the anime started overstepping normal worry with prejudice was when it felt the need to make gender the be all and end all of this issue. It wasn’t a problem of Haruhi being weak. Oh no, it was a problem of all girls being weak and Haruhi being a girl should be more aware of her situation. Now I’m well aware of the fact that on average males do have more muscle tissue than females, but the problem Ouran seems to be blind to is that sticking up for someone, regardless of your biological sex, is a risky business. An average person doesn’t have any fighting abilities and if they are up against a group, like Haruhi was, then I think even an average male would have problems defending himself. Even someone who is tolerably strong would have problems in fending off a group of people. I mean, let’s not delude ourselves here, outside of shounen shows and fiction, numbers are almost always the most important thing in deciding a victory in a brawl. So let’s just say I wasn’t very happy about how Ouran handled this. I was, however, willing to let it slide since Haruhi herself didn’t accept this and this sort of idea pops up all the time in the medium. I was even hopeful for awhile that this was all part of the genre deconstruction that goes on in Ouran. Oh, how wrong I was!
Everything takes a turn for the worse in the most unfortunate way possible. Ouran, being the wise show that it is, feels the need to lecture us female viewers on what exactly this danger is that Haruhi is exposing herself to (and by extension we the female viewers) when we think ourselves right in helping a fellow human being in need. Yes, I am referring to the scene with Kyoya, where he basically forcefully tries to convince Haruhi that she is in the wrong. What happens is that Kyoya basically says he’s going to rape Haruhi to show her how defenceless she really is.
Don’t worry guys. It’s suppose to be “sexy”!
Disturbing, isn’t it? And that’s just scratching the surface. The more horrid aspect of this scene is that it reinforces rape culture. If anyone has any doubt about what rape culture is about, go watch this episode because a better summary of the concept I could not even try to do myself. Kyoya, and by extension Ouran, is trying to frame the idea of rape as the fault of the victim and not the criminal. It is Haruhi who has to be mindful of being a girl. It is Haruhi who should watch her back. It is Haruhi who shouldn’t be walking down dark streets or exposing herself to danger. It is Haruhi who is in the wrong here. What Kyoya is trying to imply, by forcing Haruhi to feel threatened and defenceless, is that it is her responsibility to make sure she is never in a situation where she can be raped. That man who raped her? Well, he’s obviously not the problem. It’s Haruhi who was wearing slutty clothes. Or it was Haruhi who thought she could walk by herself at night. Or it was Haruhi who drank one too many alcoholic drinks. Or it was Haruhi who trusted her companion and put herself in a position where she was vulnerable. The blame is squarely on Haruhi. The boys of Ouran have long forgotten the boys who attacked Haruhi. Forget the fact that human beings make mistakes. Forget the fact that rape isn’t about sexual attraction and clothing has nothing to do with it. Hell, even forget the fact that even when someone tries their hardest not to find themselves in such a situation, they do and by no fault of their own. I mean, date rape is pretty normal, and I would think most human beings aren’t so paranoid or cynical that they suspect every single man or women that they have/are/will date as someone who will do harm to them. Yet, rape culture would have us believe that nope, victim is squarely to blame. Screw sympathy and understanding.
I haven’t even yet touched upon the ethical and moral problems in such an approach. I’m not talking about how it is wrong to victim blame (that is apparent enough I would hope!) But the ethical problems of forcing half the human population (perhaps even more) to have less freedom than others. In attempting to place the responsibility squarely on Haruhi (i.e. the average girl), Ouran is saying it is ok for someone like Haruhi to give up her freedom to walk alone at night. It is also ok for her to not have the freedom to wear whatever she likes (least she be “asking for it”). Furthermore, she doesn’t have the freedom to expect others to treat her with respect and dignity, so she had better not get too drunk or trust her partner when he wants to take her to his home. But it is perfectly morally acceptable for the other half of the human race to be able to hurt another human being and face no consequences. Clearly those guys who were harassing Haruhi’s female friends were justified in what they did. Clearly it is Haruhi who needs to be restricted and not those guys. Because apparently being weak and defenceless is the problem and not the fact that shit like this shouldn’t happen.
The horribleness of this becomes even more apparent when no one would ever think to suggest that a murder victim should have not walked down that dark alley, or shouldn’t have trusted that person, or shouldn’t have gotten involved with the wrong crowd, or shouldn’t have gone off to war and got themselves killed. Yet when it comes to rape, society feels it is ok to blame the victim. Ouran truly overstepped the bounds in this episode. I cannot think of an episode that has made me feel this hurt and angry in recent years. Plenty have made me feel uncomfortable, some even exasperated at their stupidity, but I haven’t felt this strongly disgusted in awhile. A shame because I thought Haruhi to be a breath of fresh air in terms of shoujo heroines. Yet the subtle message of this episode is just unforgivable. It would be one thing if Haruhi had called out Kyoya on his BS. But the show defused the tension by having her say Kyoya would gain nothing with sleeping with her and thus he won’t, prompting him to laugh and leave. This totally side-steps and in turn legitimizes what Kyoya said because no one questions it, certainly not the heroine.
I’m hoping this will be an isolated instance, but I can definitely say this episode has affected my ability to enjoy this series. It’s been on an undetermined hiatus for awhile now because I’m still not ready to go back to it just yet. Maybe the subsequent episodes can win me over, but Ouran really has an uphill battle ahead of it.
–SW
Pixels and Panels [ A Game x Manga Blog] 
04/10/2012 at 10:11 pm
I cannot believe that I missed seeing this when I’ve watched this episode in the past. Overall I think that the rest of Ouran is better than this but suddenly I’m not so certain anymore.
04/10/2012 at 10:50 pm
I find that we tend to sometimes have really strong reactions to certain things and sometimes they slip past us or don’t produce as strong a reaction. I’m sure if someone looked through my anime and manga watch list, they would ask me why I didn’t notice the horribleness of this or that. It’s strange, but sometimes stuff just doesn’t click and sometimes it just does. Which is why I think a good manga/anime community is so nice. You get to read about things from angles you missed or didn’t consider. :)
04/10/2012 at 11:35 pm
I watched the first episode of Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun the other day and the main male character uses rape as a threat to the main female character at one point. Regardless of how the rest of the episode went it left a bad taste in my mouth, not helped by the fact that the girl seemed to later shrug it off. Now, as the show went on and I ‘figured’ the guy out I decided to charitably attribute it that he doesn’t understand the seriousness of saying such things and “almost certainly” never would have followed through, but that didn’t excuse it.
Now, (and I’m choosing my words carefully here) one of the things I appreciate the anime world at large for is that some shows don’t shy away from certain topics. It’s an ugly world, and I’d hate for those shows that attempt to be “serious” to avoid them. Rape happens, FAR more often than most realized, and apparently very often the victim knows the attacker. The question is, can anime address this issue in a realistic manner without coming across as justification, or, worse, simple entertainment for those who actually look for such things in their media?
05/10/2012 at 3:29 pm
Yeah, I’ve been hearing about Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun a lot. I haven’t personally watched it yet because I rarely watch anime that is just starting to air. That said, I did read Moe Sucks take on the episode as well and I’m honestly not sure how I will feel about it now till I watch it. I, and I know this is going to sound strange, don’t always get bothered about references to rape in shoujo. Actually, it is kind of weird (or maybe not if you consider it from a sociological angle), but a lot of shoujo always touch on the topic somehow (from Fushigi Yugi to Boys Over Flowers/Hana Yori Dango). I don’t always like the way it is introduced or used, but Ouran is the first time it has really felt like some line was crossed and way too far. Perhaps because Ouran took it a step further and made it a point to actually start lecturing the viewer about what the responsibilities are for the female when it comes to rape. I didn’t like how rape was used for drama in Fushigi Yugi and Boys Over Flowers but those two manga never tried to suggest that it was somehow the fault of the girl in that situation, and I guess I could just accept that it was part of the story, even if I didn’t like how it was handled.
But back to your second point, I agree. Not talking about difficult topics is just as bad as talking about them in ways that don’t really address the topic. I think rape was handled really well in the manga Basara for example. It’s not a big point in the story, but two very different characters, one male and one female, deal with it in their own ways. The actual scenes are also depicted in a more psychological way, so there is really no way anyone can grasp any titillation from it. Fairy Cube was also pretty good about it.
05/10/2012 at 4:33 am
When I watched that particular episode from Ouran, something about it didn’t quite sit well with me. I never thought about it as deeply until I read your post, but it isn’t right that somehow females are considered too weak or incapable of taking care of themselves. It reinforces a lot of terrible gender stereotypes we try to break down. But I think at the very least, Haruhi should have tried to get back up rather than try to take on those guys by herself. She was greatly outnumbered which is what the Ouran members were trying to point out. I also kind of understand that the boys and Kyoya doing what they did was trying to show how much they care for her and they don’t want to see her hurt. Maybe it could have been handled better than what we are given in this episode, which implies that she is a girl, therefore, defenseless or asking to be raped by shady men if she’s not careful.
Still, don’t let this one episode put you off from enjoying the rest of the series. Ouran is still one of my favorite shojos out there, and the good still outweighs the bad (this episode).
05/10/2012 at 3:46 pm
Well I think the problem here isn’t so much that Haruhi is weak, but that Ouran totally ignores the fact that it isn’t about gender. It was purely about numbers. Plus for every male that can fight, there are ones that can’t, so even guys are prone to getting beat up. I didn’t feel like that is what they were trying to point out. They were explicitly stating you are a girl so you should be more aware of your situation to Haruhi. (I believe the twins said something along those lines).
Sure, but that’s my point, why is it the responsibility of the victim to make sure she isn’t raped? If someone is murdered, do we all go, “well maybe he shouldn’t have walked down in the bad part of town.” We don’t do that. We get angry at the killer. I’m saying the boys of Ouran are playing into rape culture by enforcing that. By getting angry at Haruhi and making sure she “learns her lesson”, rather than being solely disgusted by the fact that there are men out there that prey on defenceless individuals. That’s my issue with this episode. It is very subtle victim blaming and it is being justified here by “they care for her and don’t want to see her hurt”, which I think is horrible because it is painting the victim blaming as something good.
26/05/2021 at 2:33 am
YES THANK YOU. I know this was written years ago, but I just started watching this anime and after watching episode 8 I had to immediately look to see what others thought of it. I CANNOT stand the victim blaming in this. And what was up with that almost rape scene?? Without that scene, this episode would just be uncomfortable and outdated, but with it it’s like, what the fuck? I can’t tell if the character was ACTUALLY trying to ‘prove a point’ or if he’s a rapist. To me it looks like the writers created that scene to set up an opportunity for Kyoya to fall in love with Haruhi because of how she ‘out smarts’ him. But couldn’t they have done it literally any other way? That scene did not need to happen NOR did this episode. As women we know what we face in the real world, we don’t need men to teach it to us or tell us that it’s our fault. I’m glad someone else was equally upset about this. I know this was written in 2012 but thank you for speaking up!
05/10/2012 at 5:02 am
This is pretty much the only episode where something like this happens, so I wouldn’t let that stop you from continuing the series. I can see why that scene bothered you, though, because it bothered me too – it implies that Haruhi should let her gender limit her actions, even in situations where taking action is the right thing to do. How you act (and react) should be defined by your personality; not your gender. It suggests that instead of defending herself Haruhi should have waited until a man saved her because that’s what a ‘proper’ girl would do. And I think what bothered me most is that Haruhi ends up apologizing, almost suggesting that they were right for calling her out on being ‘just’ a girl – as though all girls are defenseless or weak. It’s sad that so many series that try to ‘critique’ traditional gender roles always end up upholding the status quo.
05/10/2012 at 3:53 pm
That’s good to know. I will continue with it then.
Yeah, that’s part of the problem of this episode as well. It’s amazing that the writers don’t see anything wrong in suggesting it is ok to restrict what someone can and cannot do based solely on their sex. :(
06/10/2012 at 1:34 pm
Well I have never watched the anime version or have any strong inclination to do so, but I got curious so I decided to check if and when this happens in the original. I suppose it is not surprising that I had forgotten it, seeing as it takes place all the way in volume 3. Seems to play out pretty much the same as you described it http://i.imgur.com/v5QwR.png
Now having reread the chapter, I do remember being somewhat annoyed how the implication was that Haruhi was somehow the one most in the wrong in the situation, however recklessly she may have acted. Maybe it was an isolated incident, I honestly can not remember any others from later on in the story, but it really was a poorly handled one. Good post, soaring.
06/10/2012 at 5:38 pm
Yeah, that’s exactly how it plays out in the anime. He says almost the exact same thing. :(
At least for the anime, it seems to be an isolated incident (thanks to starsamaria for pointing it out), so I’m going to resume watching soon. Ouran had a lot going for it so I am even more disappointed about this. I actually like Haruhi, she’s pretty unique as far as shoujo heroines go and the gags were pretty funny in the first few episodes too. A shame it was unable to escape the obvious patriarchal framework when thinking about gender and violence.Thanks, I appreciate that people enjoy my ramblings. :3
07/07/2013 at 11:59 pm
Thank you for typing this up.
I’m on my first watch through of Ouran and I was really enjoying it, until this episode came along. I was completely blindsided. I’m so upset. Honestly, I only watched it about an hour ago and I came online to see if I could find something, anything to help me mentally work through what I just saw.
What you just wrote doesn’t fix my problem, but it’s helping to calm me down and quite frankly I feel better just knowing that I’m not the only one who thinks there’s something seriously fucked with this episode.
I expected so much better from this show. Reading the other comments, it seems that this is an isolated incident. I still don’t know if I have it in me to watch on, which is a shame because I was really enjoying it.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts. It means a lot to me.
09/07/2013 at 6:33 am
Yeah, this episode really ruined my enjoyment of the show as well. It’s been months, but I’m still struggling to finish Ouran.
I’m happy my thoughts helped even if they don’t fix the problem.
07/01/2014 at 11:50 pm
Sorry for the late comment but I had just finished up the series after having it be recommended to me as a light-hearted anime (just finished Shingeki no Kyojin). I was Googling about Kyoya’s intentions with Haruhi and this page popped up.
Thank you so much for writing about this piece. I feel as if there aren’t enough members of the manga/anime community that are aware of some of the really bad implications of gender roles, rape culture and fetishization. With a lot of fanart/fanfiction that revolves around girls(and guys) wanting to be raped or fetishizing the idea of being helpless and being unable to fight back when it comes to a love interest. I digress. This scene disturbed me, not only due to the points listed about the enforcement of victim-blaming, but I was really questioning Kyoya’s intentions. At first it seems like he was “demonstrating” how vulnerable Haruhi is and how she should not put herself in such situations. But I was questioning whether or not Kyoya would have actually raped her, just from the body language and the way Kyoya responded to Haruhi in the anime that weren’t really too present in the manga chapter. It sent a chill down my spine and Kyoya was no longer on my favorite characters list after that episode… Your thoughts?
15/01/2014 at 4:47 am
Late replies are no problem because wordpress alerts me to every comment. :)
Hmmm, I’m going to go out on a limb and say he didn’t intend it based on the fact that this was written by a lady for teenage girls. It was adapted by (most likely) an all male staff into anime, but if they did add in some subtle changes to make it seem more likely, it would be an alteration from the original intent of the manga author. So I guess my point is that in this scene, as it was originally conceived, the author did not intend for Kyoya to be serious in his threat. Still I don’t think that changes my opinion on the scene itself or the character. To me the real intention behind the words isn’t important, the mere idea that this sort of thing was a “lesson” for Haruhi was in and of itself disturbing and disgusting enough to get to me. Certainly, it would be very twisted if Kyoya intended to go through with his threat to really prove to Haruhi her vulnerability, but I’m already disgusted enough just by his use of the threat of rape to highlight her vulnerability and keep her in line.
03/02/2014 at 2:36 pm
Thank you for writing this. I’ve just seen this scene for the first time, and I was really disturbed by it too. For all the reasons you mention, and also for one you bring up in the caption but not in the post – that as well as everything else, this is presented as being a sexy scene. Ugh. I’m still shivering. Thank you for summing up so well what’s wrong with it.
04/03/2014 at 10:44 pm
You know what the hypocritical and ironic part is that they run a host club that encourages girls to do the very things that apparently are not “right” for girls. Talk about their sexual, emotional and romantic desires, talk about their affections, act them out, be passionate and outgoing not be shy and taciturn. Be strong and positive and they try to help the girls be bold. Yet Kyouya makes no sense doing this to Haruhi in fact if Haruhi wanted she could have punched or headbutted him or something else. The boys made no sense here really they didn’t. Though yeah Haruhi doesn’t accept this craop anyone who saw the ending know that.
In fact the economic exploitation done in the show is also questionable because even if this was done to an actual guy its pretty unfair you know.
04/03/2014 at 10:53 pm
Reblogged this on Iconography ♠ Incomplete and commented:
The problem with heteronormativity and as one of my best friends also stated is that it likes binaries. Well, heteronormativity is not straight or heterosexual culture it is actually also in queer culture. It focuses on biased contrasts and undermines individuals a lot and makes a false consciousness and false collectives. This anime though quite gender exploratory actually had a heteronormative take in this episode without much explanantion or outcry from the lead who doesn’t care is she is called a girl or a boy. In fact, she does not consent but just doesnt do anything; it was not that she was not tally indifferent to the idea but what the guy was trying to say can be done another way. It just made him look stupid though he is pretty intelligent which made fans more upset. I know the guy was trying to say that her androgynous nature does not prevent other guys to want to sexually harass her and she understands that though she should have just proved to him that she is aware of that fact more intensely and show that she can pretty much protect herself too.
06/04/2014 at 12:43 am
I just watched this episode and had turn away. I was about ready to post a rant about it somewhere myself, but this article sums up my feelings completely. Thank you for this.
06/04/2014 at 5:05 am
No problem. :) I’m happy to hear a lot of people had this reaction to this episode because it’s pretty unapologetic, but subtle, victim blaming, and that, I cannot stand.
28/05/2014 at 2:17 pm
I have to say I don’t agree and I will explain why. I absolutely understand how we are concerned about how this episode may make some really pathetic men feel like rape is justified, but they feel that way not because this episode makes them think that, it’s cuz they already want to believe that and the stance this episode takes is vague enough for them to believe what they want to believe, which I definitely think is the viewers fault rather than the show. Wt happened in the show was that they never said anything about her being weak, it’s clear that when tamaki said “you are a girl” he meant he was worried about rape happening, he is just too boyish to utter that word. because yah it’s more likely to happen to women, that’s a reality, and knowing tamaki affection for haruhi that is definitely wt he meant by you are a girl, instead of “you are weak”. I do agree that they should at least given haruhi credit for being brave but hey wt do u know half of them have a crush on her so the worry of her getting pushed off the cliff or raped is probably going to be way more overwhelming….and that’s fair. (Uh this is why I don’t want boys to have crush on me lol, this is really not about sexist protectiveness, it’s just wt happens when you have a crush on someone regardless of gender, so I didn’t consider that sexist, but yes i agree if I was haruhi I would be disappointed that I’m not recognized for my bravery and instead just go treated as “the girl” but I would understand its cuz they are all hopelessly crushed rather than that they are sexist lol.
As for kyoya, personally wt I got from the show was that kyoya was seriously interested in seducing her and did it this way so he could both test out the water and make it a lesson in the case she shows no interest. I guess tats a even more twisted interpretation to some but it’s the one tat makes sense to me more cuz I just totally see kyoya doing something like this….
Anyways, the following I am going to say is going to be slightly disturbing but nobody is going to know who i am so I don’t mind saying it.
I was raped and frankly let me tell u, I spent the first 3 years thinking tat it’s all men’s fault, and that did not make me happier, because I am going to say this flat out, I knew from the bottom of my heart that it wasn’t true, not in my situation anyways.
This was not done by a stranger, but a very close classmate, and let’s just say when you are that close, u just can’t totally blame it on the men for getting mixed signals. And please do not think that I’ve been told to think this by anyone, in fact all of my frds and counsellor so told me that it’s his fault, but they really have no idea wt I did, I am the only one who know what I did, and I know for a fact I am partly responsible despite having said no. I won’t explain because it’s too complicated to explain and tmi for public. And frankly, it was when I admitted that to myself that made me feel recovered. Everyone trying to blame it entirely on him was not helpful at all, it made me feel like a evil woman a coward who used my female status to make him look like the one that was solely responsible.
So even though in haruhi s case I wud say she is definitely more innocent than me,but I did think it was important for girls to understand that we just have to protect ourselves in the end. Yah it sucks that men just can’t take no for an answer sometimes, but when I put myself in his position I actually completely understand why, it’s wrong but I forgive him, because I can sincerely relate to how not genuine that “no” sounded to him, and I admit that I am not perfect in actually being able to relate to his mistake.
Due to wt happened to me I have had the chance to speak to a number of girls who feel the same way I do, and ironically enough all of us were extremely self reliant girls who are Aquarius, which is exactly wt haruhi is, how interesting….
Oh and how ironic it is that the boy was Scorpio like kyoya.
And for me I think the fact kyoya did not carry through with it makes him noble enough.
I realize that story may be not convincing enough but my point is simply that when this kind of thing actually happened to me, I ultimately felt blaming others and shoving responsibility to them was not helpful, all I wanted was to never let it happen again to me, I wanted to be the one in control of the situation, so even if it was his fault im willing to take the responsibility, not because I have given in to male oppression but because I no longer wish to leave it in their hands when they just can’t control themselves. I will no longer waste time on expecting them to learn it and get disappointed, I just want to be the person who smells the danger beforehand, so it doesn’t happen.
I understand that it’s disturbing that in this show it’s a bunch of guys trying to teach her this, that makes it seem extremely suspicious and it seems like they are trying to enforce their right to be wrong on women instead of helping us,but I am saying after all this I think it’s just more important that I do wt can help myself instead of obsessing over their intentions. It maybe a pessimistic view but as a girl I truly want to say to every girl out there, take the matter into your own hands, don’t be the one to think, “but they shouldn’t!”And have it happen to you. It’s not any system or male supremacy that made men have such problematic self control, it’s their anatomy and nature, which I can forgive, and the reason I do is because, I think while women are capable of better physical control does not mean we are better at mind control. I may be able to contain myself in the same situation and not carry through, but I would be bearing hell of a grudge.
You may delete this after reading it, because I understand that you might be worried that this comment may further encourage men to justify their rape, but I think if any men does that, it’s definitely their fault rather than my comments fault…
If u want further discussion feel free to let me know :)
Btw I think one info I may let u in on that may help u understand the way I feel is that I am actually lesbian, but I was hiding that for a very long time, that boy did not know…and yes I may have carried the act too far around him. I also admit that I may have such a calm attitude toward the whole situation due to the fact I just don’t have that kind of feelings for men therefore the situation didn’t result in the whole traumatic “how can I ever love again” dilemma.
But nevertheless I think if we don’t want this to happen, we are just going to have to be the boss about it and not even give them the chance. It’s not ideal but practically the most effective solution.
13/07/2014 at 5:50 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this article. I was so disgusted by this episode that I almost quit watching the show entirely. When I did get the guts to watch the episode again online, it made me sick how many fans were gushing over Kyoya’s ‘sexiness’ and how they wished they could be Haruhi. I wanted to reach through the screen and shake them and say “Do you NOT grasp what’s going on here? That Kyoya is threatening to RAPE her?” My God, the coldness in his eyes when he said it too… I just never understood why they had to address rape in that manner. It was uncalled for.
05/10/2014 at 2:38 am
I read the first volume of the manga and I watched the first two episodes of the anime and enjoyed it all. However, I saw the “bedroom” scene on YouTube while looking at random Ouran clips and it left me absolutely shocked. Not only the patronizing, mansplaining behavior towards Haruhi, but the fact that Kyoya grabbed Haruhi, threw her on the bed, and hovered over her body in a menacing manner. I don’t give a flying fig what advice you are trying to give, you DON’T do that to your friend, especially if you are male and your friend is female! Pretending that you are going to rape your friend in order to “teach her a lesson” is extremely unhealthy and such behavior has changed my view of Kyoya. Before I saw the scene, I was thinking about buying the entire season on DVD but now I’m not so sure (I know that this scene was a “Big Lipped Alligator Moment,” but it has left a bad taste in my mouth of the entire show.) Thank you so much for writing this article. It’s a breath of fresh air to see rape culture identified and written about in such a smart way. The YouTube page of the scene is CHOCK full of young women who have been brainwashed by our societies to view Kyoya’s behavior as acceptable. It’s very sad and unnerving.
07/11/2014 at 2:38 am
Let’s not forget that the setting is Japan. They’re a little more… “traditional” in their gender roles. I do agree with some of your point but not all. The host club was not implying that it was basically all Haruhi’s fault for putting herself in that situation where she could have been raped (except the guys thought she was a guy), but that they were not too far away for her to have simply called out to them for backup, which would have been the smarter thing to do since she was outnumbered. They’re Japanese so they do make a sexist comment about her being a girl and therefore weak but let’s not forget that point Tamaki made as well. Kyoya would not have actually raped Haruhi because that would be incredibly stupid and get him in a lot of trouble with his friends (especially Tamaki) and possibly the law, and Kyoya is anything but stupid. Kyoya is at fault for having a sexist view (what he says is even worse in the manga) but let’s not imply that he would actually rape her to teach her a lesson. He’s definitely not above trying to scare her though. Now back to your point about the host club considering that the guys who tried to hurt Haruhi were not at fault: did you completely miss the part where the twins beat them up and Kyoya did God knows what to them when he said he “took care of them?” They don’t mention them being “at fault” because to them those guys are no longer a problem. For all we know, they could have been kicked out of the country for what they did. They did messed with some pretty powerful and influential kids. Therefore, they focus in the current problem: getting Haruhi to rely on others more so she doesn’t do reckless things like that anymore (because she’s a “weak girl”). They did have a point about her being reckless, I just don’t agree with their views on females or Kyoya’s method…
20/04/2015 at 10:28 pm
I totally agree with this comment. To think that Kyouya would actually rape Haruhi (or, even worse, that he’s using this as an opportunity to impose his desires for her onto her) is way too narrow a reading of Kyouya’s character. He would never make such an un-strategic move, nor would he ever be such a slave to his desires or emotions. But, just as you mentioned, he is definitely sexist, and is perpetuating victim-blaming by teaching her this lesson. That’s the truly despicable part of this scene, and what’s more is that there is never any authoritative commentary or implication in the narrative that his actions were wrong. There is no condemnation by the writers or creators of the show, whether directly or indirectly, which leaves their opinion on it ambiguous. And certainly it shouldn’t be ambiguous – victim-blaming and shaming is never okay.
I do have to say that this scene didn’t surprise me as much as it surprised many people, and that these actions are very much in line with Kyouya’s character and not a drastic deviation from it. He is a person who is so painfully practical, and has never been taught – not in his upbringing nor in his experience of life – to be empathetic or respectful to other people’s emotions or psychological needs. His father hits him. His concept of violence as a way of teaching people discipline has been ingrained in him from childhood. He uses physical violence and threat tactics on Haruhi because it is his convoluted way of being “fatherly” to her, teaching her to “properly conduct herself in society.” It is exactly what his father does to him. He, just like his father before him, has a messed up, extremist view of what discipline means. He shows himself to have this issue through the entire run of the show, it just never got to as dramatic of a point as it did in this episode. This is very much who Kyouya is and what he’s capable of on a day to day basis, and viewers who like him “except for his behavior in this episode” probably don’t actually get the nuances of his personality.
28/05/2015 at 8:01 pm
I get your point. I was really pissed off from this episode myself when I watched it. In fact I also put Ouran on a long hiatus before I got back to it ( no worries, the good definitely outweighs the bad). I DO NOT support the message that they conveyed.
But I tried to look at it from a different angle, the would be harasses were depicted as obvious a**holes from the start and the club members beat them up, so they’re not really exempting them from the crime. Also in the manga Haruhi drew the conclusion that she should learn martial arts or self-defense.
I don’t think that they’re telling her that it’s all her fault or that she deserves it as much as telling her to be careful, I mean you’d tell your friend to at least be careful when going to a bad neighborhood because its dangerous.
That being said, I must add that it does have some very sketchy implications, even though the ultimate *message* of the episode is that you should rely on people (although I hope it’s not just a message for girls) I think that it was VERY poorly handled.
04/09/2015 at 5:01 pm
i completely agree. i hated this episode and found it difficult to enjoy the rest of the series. However i also feel that this episode contradicts the rest of the series as ouran high school host club seems to send out the message that gender doesn’t matter. This episode left me feeling quite angry and while i did finish the series, i found the remaining episodes uncomfortable to watch. It made me dislike the majority of the host club members because of how they reacted towards haruhi.
05/09/2015 at 7:42 pm
Just leaving this out here because some commenters have slightly misunderstood my point. I don’t think Kyouya was going to rape Haruhi. That’s not my problem here either. Nor is it the boys telling Haruhi to be careful. Yes, I did get annoyed that the show went there, but fine, I was going to let it slide. No. My problem is the show uses the threat of rape to teach Haruhi a lesson and no one says anything in the show to condemn this. Using someone’s vulnerability as a woman to force them to comply with your wishes (lesson) is disgusting. Doesn’t matter that there was no intention to go through with it. The mere fact of the threat is the problem. And that it is never questioned or addressed by the show. Just leaving it there like that is tacit approval. Why? Because this is a common idea and not actively denouncing it is approval. It’s the status quo. It’s not going to change nor is anyone going to think it’s not okay unless it’s denounced. That’s the problem here. Especially on a media consumption level which reaches so many people. As a content maker, you are approving and perpetuating these ideas by tacitly approving them through yet another story where it’s okay for this sort of thing to happen without any sort of repercussions. If the author wanted to make it a point that the boys wanted Haruhi to be careful. The earlier stuff was more than enough. Or actually have Haruhi get hurt by getting beat up. Make her make those mistake and make her realize that she should rely on others. BUT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL GOOD, DO NOT BRING IN DISGUSTING RAPE CULTURE INTO YOUR STORY OF FRIENDS IF THAT’S WHAT YOU ARE GOING FOR. There is no excuse for this. There are SO MANY WAYS to handle the “rely on others” lesson without this creepy disgusting rape culture talk down to us viewers. Bottom line: Ouran has absolutely NO EXCUSE for this shit.
10/09/2015 at 10:34 pm
Well said, and thank you for bringing the discussion back to your original point ;)
Watching that scene made me feel ill. As you said, regardless of culture or actual intentions, the threat of rape is disgusting and unacceptable.
Please keep writing articles like this, that so eloquently put into words what so many other viewers felt but perhaps couldn’t articulate.
:)
03/10/2015 at 8:21 am
I have never failed to finish watching an anime that I’ve started beyond the first episode on. Host Club has earned the dubious honor of being the first. I was already feeling bad about it when Tamaki started his BS. I was prepared to drop it during the dinner scene with the rest of the Host Club when it was clear that they actually had the nerve to portray Tamaki as being in the right, and I skipped ahead to see if anything would change before I quit watching. I was not prepared for how much worse what I skipped ahead to was.
What an absolutely disgusting anime. I had heard a lot of praise for it, so it’s pretty disappointing that this is what it’s turned out to be. And this is supposed to be a shōjo, with an entire cast of males telling the girl how helpless she is and then perpetuating victim-blaming? It makes me want to vomit.
20/01/2016 at 8:44 am
[…] men when she was alone earlier in the episode (you can find a more in-depth analysis of this scene here in this analysis of rape culture in the episode and here in an ongoing series about Asian womanhood in pop culture). Perhaps if Kyoya had been made […]
14/02/2016 at 1:43 pm
Okay so the thing I see is that yes the boys were worried about her safety and yes the reason was kind of sexist but they also care about her and the way she’s developed as a person by that episode so I give them credit for that. As for the “rape” scene he never had any ill intention of actually doing it he just wanted to prove to her that bad things can happen if you act out of turn and without good judgement and doesn’t he apologize for it later? Yes he could have proved his point another way and the way he chose to do it was pretty fucked up but he never had any ill intention.
13/09/2016 at 11:18 pm
It’s been years since I’ve watched this anime, mostly because of the nausea this episode built up in me. However I had completely forgotten and was just re-watching Ouran when I came across episode 8 and was once again horribly disturbed. While I can understand that she was weaker and outnumbered by the assailants, I cannot condone how the rest of the club concluded that she was at fault for acting at all (completely leaving out the danger the female HC attendees were in) and that any action she did should count against her due to her gender. Yes, men have more natural muscle mass but in no way does that authorize men as the only ones to do something in such a situation. The way I see it, Haruhi saved the girl in the white bikini who would have been an easy sexual assault victim (not that it is her fault, she’s on a PRIVATE beach). The fact that no one acknowledges her bravery and only scolds her infuriates me. Added to that, it became a huge sexist issue when the assailants did not even know that Haruhi was female. (The dismissal of karate lessons was especially brutal in my opinion.)
Sorry for ranting, this episode feels like it is personally attacking my gender and autonomy due to my gender. The point I was trying to make was that I was horrified by the episode, but truly expected to see other fans pointing out Kyouya’s rape attempt (no matter how well intentioned) or the entire rest of the group’s sexism and victim blaming. When I looked online, I instead saw people praising how ‘sexy’ Kyouya was and squealing over Tamaki’s actions instead of acknowledging how they went wrong despite positive intentions and genuine worry over the possible consequences Haruhi’s actions could have had. I wanted you to know how much seeing this blog post reassured me and helped ease my worry over our community at large. Rape is commonly brought up in manga and anime but, just like you, it has never disturbed me as deeply as in this episode. Thank you!
06/12/2016 at 1:21 pm
I do agree on a lot of this, I just don’t understand which side you are taking. Obviously, victim blaming is the wrong thing to do, It is obviously the rapists fault. The boys in this episode were also completely wrong if they think sex is a limit. This was actually the only episode where I couldn’t stand Tamaki. I never really enjoyed Kyoya, and this episode just finally set it for me, that I do not like him. IF Haruhi wouldn’t have gotten the “message” of what Kyoya was trying to teach them, would he have raped them? It’s also very upsetting to see the boys not respect how they want to be seen. They do not care to be seen as a girl or a guy, but as them self. And they’re a brave person, but the boys don’t see that because they see Haruhi as just a girl. Also, fangirls who dig the rape scene don’t seem to understand that it’s really sexual assault. To get away with it they say that he was just trying to teach Haruhi a lesson, acting like its right or something. The scene was over all shocking, and the part where the boys try and assault the clients made me uncomfortable. Not as uncomfortable as the Kyoya scene.
06/12/2016 at 1:28 pm
Also, about this episode. I had finished Ouran without knowing this episode existed. Later on when I was about to watch the last episode, my friend had told me that Kyoya and Tamaki were fighting over Haruhi because of the fathers wanting them both the marry Haruhi. She had also told me about the rape scene. I was scared about it, and i expected the assault to appear in the last episode (Because of the tamaki vs kyoya thing-) but when it didn’t, i had gotten really confused. Its been about 3 months and I just now stumbled upon the episode. I had heard about it and knew it was twisted, but really watching it upset me. I was told “The beach episode” over and over, so I kept re watching episode 7 trying to look for the rape scene. But it turned out episode 8 was ALSO a beach episode that i had completely dodged while first watching the series. I wish I hadn’t have found it, because I could actually like Kyoya.
28/01/2017 at 9:30 pm
When it comes to the fight between Haruhi and the girls, my understanding was that the host club or, more specifically, Tamaki got mad at Haruhi for making him worry. I think he was useing the arguement that she’s a girl because he didn’t want to outright say he was worried and he didn’t have anything else to argue. Plus, we can all agree, Tamaki is just really dramatic.
17/03/2017 at 6:45 am
My partner and I discussed this scene when we watched that episode yesterday, and we realised that the whole episode is about the host club members trying to find Haruhi’s weak point, to find what she’s really afraid of. We thought this rape scene MIGHT be Kyoya trying to scare her, trying to find the weak point they where looking for. Because the next thing that happens is that she shows that she’s afraid of the thunder. Anyway, if Kyoya only had the intention to try finding her weak point the anime makers were really stupid to not explain that. Anyway it’s a stupid scene, they could at least explained it if they wanted it to be one the amine.
06/04/2018 at 1:58 pm
You obviously have no clue what was really going on
1: yeah the gendered language was a mistake but guess what it actually really wasnt, the show knows it was making generalazations this is proven when haruhi gets upset at tamaki for saying what he did
2: while yes sticking up for someone is risky, haruhi didnt think through her actions, that was the underlying problem, she had many options but insted opted for foghting rather then calling for the police force that we knew was there
3: and tamaki does have a point haruhi isnt like honey, she isnt a master fighter shes mearly smart
20/03/2022 at 2:33 pm
While, when you look at the surface, it does look like that, however, after rereading that spot in the manga and rewatching that episode, I have to point out your flows. The reason Tama and the idiot brigade where made was more along the line of Haru being reckless. She had no training in martial arts, nor did she have a weapon on her. While woman can be strong without these traits, the fact that Haru is fighting three men with a disadvantage already, was completely reckless of her, especially since she had six men with in shouting range, two of which ARE trained martial artists, and had enough time to grab up a bucket of sea life to throw at the three men, WAS reckless. Now, as for Kyoya and his mistakes, he wasn’t forcing her, he had suggested she pay for the flowers with her body, which portrays men’s bad habits of suggesting women to pay for stuff they buy them with their bodies, not with rape itself. Now he did push her onto the bed with himself on top, but both are fully clothed, and he continues, telling her “As a man, I could go after you at any time, and as a woman, you couldn’t stop me. It may be time to rethink your naiveté? Acting neutral is all well and good, but it’s a mistake to let your gaurd down.” This isn’t victim blaming, he isn’t saying “Because you are a girl, and I am a guy, it’s ok for me to do this if you let your gaurd down.” He’s saying, “Because I am a guy, and you are a girl, this an happen. I don’t want this to happen, so stop thinking that it doesn’t matter that you are a girl and I am a guy, keep yourself self.” Or, for a less drawn out conversation, “You we’re reckless and could have been aerverly hurt! I am an idiot who cares, so please, for the love of Tama’s sanity and my own, don’t rush into a known danger without thinking or asking for help.” He’s going about it wrong, and even Haru says so when thanking him for caring, by saying “You played the villain to teach me, right?” But it’s also stablish before all this that Kyo doesn’t do shit if he can’t gain from it. He gains nothing from her paying him with sex, or even raping her. As the third son, his father would disown him if anything such as a scandal was to be gossiped about, or even whispers reach him. Kyoya’s already on thin ice with being apart of the host club, and Haru knows, which is why she doesn’t freak out or anything, instead thanking him for worrying after pointing out that he wouldn’t do anything. As for the men at the cliff that day; they were sent home by the host club only after handing over their ids. The host also called the police so they can hand the IDs to the authorities and have them handled from their. Since the hosts are rich, I’m sure those idiots regret harassing high schoolers and pushing one over a cliff, even into water.